Marketing Operations & LinkedIn Secrets w/ Daniel Murray @Service Titan

Transcript

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  Ian

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  Customer Experience Demand Generation Marketing Strategy

  Ian

  Hey, Daniel. Thank you so much for joining me on another Marketing Strategy Talk. How are you?

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  Daniel

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  Linkedin Marketing Strategy Marketing Tactics

  Daniel

  Good. Thanks for having me.

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  Ian

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  Founder

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  Customer Experience Demand Generation Marketing Strategy

  Ian

  Yeah, of course. So just diving right in here, man, I think we’re going to talk about a lot of things in this talk today. But I really wanted to start off with one of your posts that you had recently, which was basically something along the lines of like, “Hey, Harvard is charging a shit ton of money, like 50K for their online courses, but here’s all the things you need as a marketer to learn without going to Harvard.” And I love that post. I think it blew up, over 2,200 likes and comments. What was the most significant piece of either content or a book or an article that leveled up your game as a marketer?

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  Daniel

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  I think it wasn’t even content or book. I think the biggest thing that leveled me up was learning by doing. When I started my first couple of jobs, I just kept asking for more and more work. I kept deciding to go to different departments and asking them to give me stuff. I think that helped me the most. And then, obviously, I got book recommendations over time and that helped me refine things, but I think as a marketer, it’s being in the trenches, learning is the best way to do it.

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  Ian

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  Ian

  Yeah. So, let’s unpack that because I completely agree. There’s nothing that can replace experience. That’s been one of those themes that I’ve been just seeing over and over again. How did you get to where you’re at? So you’re senior marketing operations manager at ServiceTitan, but what was the journey along that way? Give us some examples of in the trench marketing that you’ve run into.

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  Daniel

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  Daniel

  Yeah. It was very nonlinear. So, coming out of college, I was like, “I just want a marketing job.” There was not many marketing jobs in San Diego, so I was like, “Okay, let me just take a job,” and it was a job learning marketing automation. It was like, you can get certified and start consulting on this, and I’m like, “Oh, cool, marketing and software. This is really cool.”

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  Daniel

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  Daniel

  So I started actually becoming a marketing automation consultant for Pardot. I worked for an agency that basically implemented Pardot for other companies, helped them use it. And then I decided, I was like, “Okay, I love working with companies. I love learning all about their businesses, but I can’t see results at one company.”

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  Daniel

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  Daniel

  So I decided to take a leap and moved to Los Angeles to work for a startup and I think working for a startup was where… My first startup I worked for at SnackNation, in Los Angeles, was probably the biggest learning. My CMO was hardcore direct response marketer. He was an expert copywriter. He was in the trenches with us. He followed Gary Halbert and Russell Brunson, all these big names that you hear. I just got all these learning from like five… We had a team of five to six good demand gen marketers and all was just learning together and growing together.

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  Daniel

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  Daniel

  I think that experience helped me broaden my marketing experience, and then I moved on to Oracle, which I don’t even want to talk about Oracle, big companies are not where it’s at, in my opinion. It’s good for some people, just not for my type of marketing. And then I went to another startup in LA, where I ran all marketing automation and operations, learned a lot about ICP and segmentation and using data to target the right customers and loved that.

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  Daniel

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  Daniel

  But I still wanted this… To learn from great marketers and that’s what led me to ServiceTitan, where I’m surrounded with a great senior director of demand gen, a great VP of marketing. I work with them daily and this marketing operations role, it’s not the typical marketing operations role, because I have someone on my team who is in… We have an analyst who handles the data, and I have people handling the tech stack, and I’m more in the weeds of finding out how to optimize the pipeline, optimize revenue, looking at different channels to see where we’re screwing up, all the way through the funnel. This has been, probably, one of the best experiences I’ve had besides SnackNation.

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  Ian

  478

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  Customer Experience Demand Generation Marketing Strategy

  Ian

  That’s great. That mirrors my experience. I’ve done the big company thing. I’ve done the startup thing. Something about the startups where you kind of just have to do it all, it’s super immersive. You learn so much quicker. You fail quicker, but you get to experience a bunch of different things that… When you work at a company like an Oracle or, in my case, CIT Bank, which is a sifty organization, it’s basically too big to fail. I’m pretty sure Oracle is around there, at this point, at that level. You get one area, you do one thing and you’re completely dedicated to that one thing. You don’t really get to spread your wings and go and bounce around and try different things. I’m with you on the startup thing. I agree, big company is not where it’s at, at least for me, either. But diving into ServiceTitan, you mentioned that you’re optimizing. You’re looking for revenue optimization, things that are working, things that aren’t. Give me one thing that is crushing it for ServiceTitan, right now. From the marketing standpoint.

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  Daniel

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  I think when I came on, we started doubling and tripling down on content, and this is the reason why it’s not really a channel, but it helps every channel evolve. And I think that’s where we started crushing it, and it’s helped our paid social. It’s helped our SDRs and MDRs, align them with more content to distribute. It allows the AEs to use the content. So, I think doubling down on content creation has exponentially helped every single channel that we have. I think our total CAC payback is awesome, but looking at even, every channel, if you see, paid social has gone up, SCM’s gone up. And everything has gone up, just because we’re doubling and tripling down on content.

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  Ian

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  Ian

  Nice. Would you say you’re on the quality or the quantity side? It sounds like you guys are pushing out more, but I mean, if you guys had to pick a side, where would you land on that?

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  Daniel

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  I think it’s definitely a mixture of both. I think you have to pump up both at the same time. I think quality is the way to go, but if it takes too long, then I would say quantity is the best way to do it because I think at the end of the day, it’s how much value you’re producing for the end user and separating it to talk direct, like one-to-one with that type of prospect. We’re in many different industries so making sure we separated by the smaller shops, the medium shops, the enterprise, but also what type of industry and talk to their specific pain points. There are common pain points in the field service industry that align, but talking to a smaller shop, where they’re starting to care about revenue and care about starting to scale their business and about being more efficient, is different in a big shop that is looking to optimize their whole business.

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  Ian

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  Ian

  Yeah, that makes sense. You can see that across industries too, for sure. So, what’s your tech stack look like? I’m kind of curious.

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  Daniel

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  Daniel

  It’s huge. Marketo’s our marketing automation. We have Salesforce, which I feel like everybody has Salesforce these days, and we have Drift, we have Gong, we have Segment on top of everything. If you consider all the Google Analytics, Google adwords, those are part of the tech stack somewhat. We have Bizible, we have just so many different types of tech that we’re using, it’s crazy.

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  Ian

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  Ian

  We have a big list too. What’s the one piece that jumps out at you as the biggest game changer?

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  Daniel

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  I think it’s the least talked about one, but I’ve been using Marketo and Salesforce so I know they’re efficient and I know they’re good, but I think Gong for the marketing team is a game changer. I think the ability for our content team and our demand gen folks to go and listen to conversations that customers are having and actually hear their pains at all different stages is a game changer because I think that at the root of all marketing is customers and knowing them and knowing them to a deeper level and you can hear it honestly on their voice, when you… And actually talk like them when you transfer that out. So I think Gong is one of the biggest game changers, even though it’s not a marketing technique tool, it is a game changer for marketing.

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  Ian

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  Ian

  I know exactly what you mean. So we use, it’s not Gong, but it’s SalesLoft for specifically recording meetings and things like that, through sales operations type of play. But what’s happening is we used to sit on the calls, which is a little awkward. I think when you have just people, stragglers on the outside, it’s a little weird. So what we’ve done is we just started recording the calls, prospecting customer and we listened back to them and it’s been invaluable. Everybody talks about it. I think that’s one of those things that maybe you’ve hit on your LinkedIn profile too. Everybody talks about listening to customers, but I think not a ton of people actually do it. And that could.

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  Daniel

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  Daniel

  Definitely not. It’s like pulling teeth. I told the marketing team and our director of demand the marketing team like, “Oh, this Gong recordings on every Salesforce record.” And they’re like, “Oh, this Gong recording.” It just was like crazy to not know that people know that they have that good resource on every record.

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  Ian

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  Ian

  It’s nuts. It’s really cool too, because they can do some reporting on the back end where it gives sentiment analysis, which is awesome. All right, man, so let’s shift gears, LinkedIn. So I think you have a ton to offer here as well. When I first connected with you, I think you were like 3 or 4K followers now you’re at 8 or 9K even I think. So let’s dig into this a little bit, how are you increasing followers like that? How do you formulate your posts? What can you give us? Because, I think it’s been super impressive. Just kind of being on the sidelines and watching your rise.

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  Daniel

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  So one thing I do is I follow people who are leaders in the industry. So like the Dave Gerhardt’s, the Chris Walkers and stuff like that. And I see who likes their content and I will go and follow some of their people. So I will follow like 20 to 30 people a day on their stuff. When I first started out, I started doing that because I’m posting pretty relevant content and they’re the audience I want to connect with. So I started doing that and then now it’s becoming pretty organic as my posts are going pretty well.

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  Daniel

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  But I think at first I would recommend anybody who’s on LinkedIn… I wouldn’t just make them blanket invitations. I would have like a little note that describes why you connecting with them. Actually build that one-to-one connection, actually take the time to do that. It’s not this automation where you click and follow up 30 people. It’s actually meaningful looking at their profile, seeing if they will actually understand what you’re saying, which that’s what I did at first in terms of post structure.

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  Daniel

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  It’s funny because people ask me all the time. Do you schedule your posts? Do you do this? Do that? I’m like no, I literally have notes in my phone and whenever I hear something cool, I will just write it down and the night before I would literally take one of those notes and formulate the post out of it. So like I have a bunch of notes that are stemming from earlier in my marketing career to now, some have thoughts have changed a lot since I’ve started, but that’s literally how I do things. Basically put my ideas on my phone and posts from that.

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  Ian

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  Ian

  It’s a great idea. I do something similar. It’s on notes, same thing, little ideas here and there, some are posts some aren’t, but yeah that’s a really good piece of advice. This is really what I want to talk to you about Dan. Do you think it’s important for entire companies to basically get behind LinkedIn and have their employees posting regularly and why or why not?

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  Daniel

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  I think it’s crucial because I think it’s becoming that your company brand is your employees. And I think it shows personality, if you see companies like Gong, Drift, G2, you see how cool the people are working for them. They’re posting their own stuff, you know they’re knowledgeable, they know, at minimum it helps your employer brand to show, this is a great place to work and maximum, it starts actually generating huge customers. Especially when like C levels and VPs are posting, like Dave started at Drift and Udi doing is Gong and stuff like that and Kyle Coleman’s doing. They’re all bringing this like community to their company, but also creating the employee brand at the same time.

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  Daniel

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  So I think it’s crucial. I think there are a little… Some industries that don’t, but at minimum, like this is for people to grow their personal brand. So you should encourage your employees anyway to do this. If you’re scared that they’re going to leave, that’s more of an internal problem. Every manager should strive to grow their employees. And that’s one way I think is the biggest way to grow starting a personal brand.

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  Ian

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  Ian

  Yeah. I couldn’t agree more. And there are some companies that are excelling at this. Like you said, the Gongs, the Drafts, the G2s even Clary, I think is another one that jumps out. I know you’re close with Nick Bennett. He was also on a previous episode, but they’re all doing extremely well at, not only displaying subject matter expertise, but like just raising the profile of their company. I didn’t know who Clary was until I started connecting with the right people on LinkedIn. Now all of a sudden they’re just up in my grill because they are just locked down as far as like employee generation of their content. And it’s just a way better way to experience in company as opposed to, for example, posting on your company profile, something that only your company cares about. I mean, might as well let your employees speak about what’s important to them, let them come up as experts.

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  Ian

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  Ian

  I think I did a quick analysis on when I started posting from my personal account. And I looked at the customer gauge stat, which is the company I work for. We didn’t change anything at the company level, but when I personally started posting, we saw a 4000% increase in visits to the company page.

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  Daniel

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  Daniel

  That’s crazy.

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  Ian

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  Ian

  It’s nuts. That’s a tough sell internally for a lot of people is like, how do you convince your boss to post regularly? So I’m going to throw it back to you. Like what did you guys experienced as a result of LinkedIn efforts, if any, and do you think it’s a legitimate business strategy as far as like revenue generation?

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  Daniel

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  I know for me, there’s only a couple of people that at ServiceTitan posting and I’m still trying to plant that seed inside of the company. There’s been a lot of recruiting people put my name and that they saw my post on LinkedIn and they’re excited to come to the company. So I think for ServiceTitan it’s done that. I know for like other big brands where like… The reason why ServiceTitan is kind of hard is because there’s not a lot of plumbers and electricians and stuff like that on LinkedIn. There’s more than we think there are, but it’s just harder to get that audience, like for Gongs and Drifts, like they’re targeting salespeople or marketing people, which there are living on LinkedIn.

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  Ian

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  Ian

  For sure.

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  Daniel

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  Daniel

  They have their audience. So industries it’s kind of harder to do that, but I still think that… I posted a video of something service titan and not promoting or anything, but it was just sharing a video of why it’s important, the trades are important during this COVID time and 15 or 16, like people in the industry shared it. I was showing internally, I’m like look, this is just from me and I didn’t even have a following at that time. Look what the CEO and the president could do and the VPS could do.

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  Ian

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  Ian

  It’s really cool. I think the more people that do it too, there’s this like almost like a network effect that happens when the profile just keeps getting wider and wider and wider. Like I said, I didn’t really understand what Clary did or Gong really did. I knew of them, but didn’t really get it until I started seeing like five or six employees posting regularly. And then I was like all right cool. That’s exactly who they are and what they do. But LinkedIn’s interesting man, where do you kind of see it evolving?

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  Ian

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  Ian

  I have this theory and you’re actually going against the theory, so just hang in there with me while I split this up.

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  Ian

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  Ian

  I think that guys like Dave, specifically hit LinkedIn with a playbook, where not lot of other people were using that playbook like five to 10 years ago on LinkedIn, he got pretty big, pretty fast. Lumpkin, Jason Lumpkin’s another example of that, where he was like eight years ago, he’s doing all this stuff we’re all doing now. Which is just adding value, adding serious insights, actionable stuff, tactical all the way.

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  Ian

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  Ian

  I think it’s interesting now or at least the way I view it. And I would love to hear your thoughts on this. I think it’s going to be tougher for people like you and I and other marketers out there to use that same playbook to stand out in a crowd though, like I said, you are already doing that. Your followers have increased significantly. You’re being an exception to the rule. But where do you kind of see it evolving? Do you think that people can run that same playbook and be successful? Or do you think that LinkedIn will evolve to something else in the coming years?

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  Daniel

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  I think the playbook will be around for a year or two, that people see some growth from it. I think there’s still a lot less content creators. Like good content creators on LinkedIn. I think that it will become like Facebook did, Instagram did, meaning like the people who are influencers now are still growing, but then the people who were like smaller, it’s going to just be tougher and tougher to get that reach. And that’s because people are going to start realizing and flooding. It’s just like supply and demand. Like right now there’s a lack of supply and there’s a lot of demand for knowledge. And I think once the supply starts increasing and more and more people catch on, then I think that people will find it harder. So I feel like we’re at a good time in LinkedIn right now, but I don’t think that time’s going to last for long.

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  Daniel

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  I know even now, like some of the views are going down, but I’ve also seen a lot of smaller content creators go up. And I think it’s due to a couple of things. I think it’s due to them knowing like what content resonates to their audience. I think it’s posting like those aha things cool. I didn’t do that. It’s posting actionable things like things that they could go and do right now to fix their business. And honestly the best LinkedIn playbook to me is give away all your secrets for free. That’s like the best. Give away your strategies, giveaway everything you know for free. And the funny part is that probably 95% of people won’t even take action on it. But at least you’re helping that 5% do something.

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  Ian

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  Ian

  You mentioned Facebook and I’m going to do a complete 180, so I apologize, but I’m kind of curious. So you guys at ServiceTitan, you must be crushing it on Facebook ads now.

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  Daniel

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  Daniel

  We’re really crushing on Facebook ads, yeah.

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  Ian

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  Ian

  I was going to say your ICP must live on Facebook and what’s your average ticket, would you say?

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  So average, it’s probably 1,300 per month, like monthly recurring revenue. So we actually at first were struggling a little bit on Facebook before I got on there. When I came in, that was one of my big focus is to increase that channel. The last three months we like three X, the deals on that channel. It was due to little tweaks, it was like better audience targeting. We started getting creative, there was more native to platforms. We started showing more content top of funnel and less like asking. We had some offers come in, which offers are great to get people that initial interest. I still think like the content play on Facebook is great. We get a $3.50 cost per subscriber to our blog from Facebook, which is insane-

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  Ian

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  Ian

  Its amazing.

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  Daniel

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  Daniel

  That’s something we want, we want people to just gain value from… So at the end of the day like revenue is the mark. So when I say three X it’s three X the revenue of that channel, not three X the lead. So I want to preface that three X leads not revenue.

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  Ian

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  Ian

  Yeah, that’s interesting. My previous episode was Dylan Hay he runs like PPC for a lot of different SaaS companies and we’re in the process of figuring that out as well. We have a pretty decent flow of leads from Facebook. We just haven’t quite gotten them to consistently convert yet. So we’re trying to over qualify at the top. We’ve tried LinkedIn in the past, it’s just way too expensive, especially with our audience. Tried Google, it’s more expensive converts better, but still pretty pricey based off of our competition. So it’s pretty heated as far as the company’s spending money. We’re up against some just companies that are in the billions of dollars.

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  Daniel

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  I’m interested about that because I think we crushed on Google and I think we crushed on Google because our brand is so strong and because we’re known in the industry, so people know about us and that’s why we crush on Google. I think one of the best… And just segmenting onto what you’re saying is, you can run as many ads, but like branding literally helps so much when it comes to every channel. Especially the high intense searches, people are looking for… Like when you say search for a certain type of software and that name comes up and you recognize that name. It’s like okay, I want to go with it, check this company out.

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  Ian

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  Ian

  Exactly. And I think that’s the power of brand, man. I mean right there, exactly what you said. It kind of the barriers to make that first interaction. I think our company specifically it’s… We’re not well known, I would say, but we’re smallest compared to our competition. So we’re doing like longer tail keywords just because we’re getting priced out of the bigger ones. Yeah, it is interesting like how big of a lover brand can be. We were doing some like physical events right before COVID hit, that were really starting to pick up momentum. We had like a couple 100 people show up and we had some really good speakers from like Salesforce and Microsoft and things like that. So brand is definitely big. We’re struggling to utilize that online, I think, without getting priced out of the market. So that’s the just juxtaposition we’re in right now, but Facebook has been super cheap. So to your point through $3.50 for a subscriber that’s unheard of man. That’s really cheap.

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  Daniel

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  Daniel

  Yeah. I think Chris Walker says this all the time, that the content play on Facebook is one of the best plays because one it’s cheap, two, it’s like guiding your buyer to the right place. And three its just like… Everybody looks at okay, we have a 1 to 2% conversion on your website. So, but that means at least 90% of the people, some are customers coming to your site, but at least 90% of the people aren’t ready to buy or not there yet. That’s why it’s so important as that content. And I think that’s why we’re hitting hard on the subscriber side of it and trying to just do it and then re-target them with more content on Facebook. And then also use email as a great channel to nurture them and send them more content.

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  Ian

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  Ian

  I am still blown away by how big email is. It’s so important, man. It’s just one of those things that I don’t think is going away anytime soon. It’s just so impactful.

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  Daniel

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  Daniel

  It’s so funny to me, one thing I’m not the biggest fan on and people give me a little hate is gated content. But I think like subscribing to your blog is the way to go or like subscribing to a tool that you produce for something. But I think like there’s nothing like owned real estate. The thing is you could take, say Marketo shutdown tomorrow. You could take that email list and go do HubSpot. You can take that email… If LinkedIn shutdown tomorrow, I couldn’t take the 8,000 people that were connected with me to somewhere else. If I don’t have them as emails or phone numbers or somewhere else.

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  Ian

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  Ian

  Shout out to, who was it, Phantomblaster. I don’t know if you’ve heard of that tool?

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  Daniel

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  Daniel

  No, I haven’t, what is that?

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  Ian

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  Ian

  You might want to check that out. So Phantomblaster is like one of the cooler tools in the marketplace. Shout out to Adam Goyette from G2 he’s doing like an office hours thing. He turned me on to it, but it was basically a program that scrapes LinkedIn, but they have a bunch of really kind of unique, think of like Zapier recipes, but it’s like LinkedIn specific scraping recipes. You can scrape everybody that liked your post and get an email or match it to an email. I mean, it’s pretty badass. Definitely check it out. But-

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  Daniel

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  Daniel

  Oh I want to check that out.

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  Ian

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  Ian

  Yeah, you might want to look into it. I haven’t actually used them myself, but he seemed pretty confident, it was pretty great. It’s not for me. But nice man, let’s come to the close here. We’re coming on the half hour. If you had to name one book that has had the biggest impact on you as a marketer, what would it be?

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  Daniel

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  Daniel

  I would say influence by Cialdini. I think what change my aspect in marketing, is I was thinking so much with tools. When I started, and thinking so much about quick hacks. I admit it, I was that type of market trying to… Because I didn’t know better to just try to find a way to get as many people in the door as possible. And then when I started learning about actually… How people buy and adding these little things, to just show them… To convince them to become a customer in a good way and show them like what they need. I think it’s helped me a lot.

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  Ian

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  Yeah, that’s a great book. Definitely recommend that to anybody listening. That’s in my top 10 for sure. One of the last things I’d like to do is this thing called word association. Imagine you’re in this psychiatrist chair leather, you’re leaning back. If I say these words what like the two or three things that you would like words that you would associate with them or just a quick kind of phrase, ready for this?

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  Daniel

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  Daniel

  Cool, yeah.

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  Ian

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  Marketing operations.

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  Daniel

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  I would say operate efficiently.

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  Ian

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  Ian

  Marketo.

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  Daniel

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  Powerful automations.

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  Ian

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  Ian

  HubSpot.

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  Daniel

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  Daniel

  User-friendly.

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  Ian

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  Drift.

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  Daniel

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  Quality conversations.

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  Ian

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  LinkedIn.

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  Daniel

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  Daniel

  The 2012 Facebook.

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  Ian

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  Ian

  Nice. Email.

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  Daniel

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  Daniel

  Best marketing channel.

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  Ian

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  Ian

  MQL.

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  Daniel

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  Daniel

  Overrated metric.

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  Ian

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  Ian

  There you go. And a ServiceTitan.

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  Daniel

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  Daniel

  I would just say it’s a service software.

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  Ian

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  Nice.

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  Daniel

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  The first thing that comes to mind, yeah.

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  Ian

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  So Daniel it’s been amazing. Thank you so much for joining up. Where can people find you? Let’s shut out the plugs.

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  Daniel

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  Daniel

  LinkedIn, that’s where I’m most active on and then all my social channels are D Murray, but I mostly active on LinkedIn. So connect with me there. If you want to have a conversation or anything, I’m always down to talk to me.

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  Ian

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  I can definitely put a recommendation out there for a follow on his LinkedIn his piping our content on the daily, all super valuable stuff. Please go follow him right now. Daniel. Thank you so much, man. It’s been insightful. Love having you on this thing and we’ll talk soon.

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  Daniel

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  Thank you. Thank you.